OFF: Truth (oh no) and Shock Rock

[Ron Jennings]

First, its amazing how you start to make one point and several completely different
points are made of it.  yer reply to my post (which was a reply to your post, i
think), seems to indicate that you think i actually care about the whole deal. nope.

>         Ok, what about Elvis?  What about Mozart?  What about Charlie
>         Parker?  You're picking on one silly part of "shocking" art
>         (Satanism).

elvis? what, the pelvis thing? that was never intended to shock. that was intended
to titillate.  and to the crowd it was aimed at, it did. the people who were shocked
were people who most likely came from homes where bride and groom slept in seperate
bedsuntil it came time to PROCREATE, then quickly returned to their own beds. =)
mozart? i dont know jack about mozart, nor do i care. what about charlie parker?
(just a reminder- my post was meant to say: don't be shocked. if i came across
another way, well now ya know why i never made it as a literary force.)

> > >         Doesn't ANYONE remember Lennon's "Jesus" comment from years ago?
> >
> > john lennon's statement was sarcasm, and fairly accurate to boot.
>
>         1) Are you sure it was sarcastic, especially if it were true?
>         And, if he were indeed sarcastic, THEN IT WAS HIS POINT TO SHOCK.
>         That's MY point.  In 1963, comparing yourself to Jesus was
>         was *unquestionably* shocking.  More so than any commercial
>         video.

if we are talking about the same thing, "we are more popular than christ," or
"they're gonna crucify me," well:more popular than christ. they were inordinately
popular, and the first to admit it. it became a drag. the statement was a deliberate
exaggeration (translated stretched truth),
meant (i believe) to be a wake up call to the fawning masses ala "GET A LIFE!"

the other bit, the song, was an extension of the same or vice versa. and he was
right.
they did crucify him. (metaphorically.)

>         2) So, if it's accurate...it's not shocking?  Tell me which part
>         of Marilyn Manson's S+M imagery isn't being enacted right now in
>         basements across this country.  [And don't ANYONE start to tell
>         me how "bad" things like that are.  To each his own.]

who cares? just cos something is real doesnt mean the misguided, impressionable
kids who make up the bulk ofthe crowd who is taken in by all this need to be exposed
to all this.  and what's this trying to justify stupidity by the previous
generation's stupidity anyway?  that was my whole point- its all been done.

>         3) Everyone whining here about Marilyn Manson probably has an
>         Ozzy album or two somewhere - what's the difference?  WHAT ABOUT
>         ALICE COOPER?  The people here complaining about MM have
>         probably tapped their fingers to "I'm 18" or "School's Out" at
>         least once in their lives - EVER SEEN AN ALICE COOPER SHOW?
>         It's GWAR and MM combined.

don't recall hearing any whining. just some people stating their opinions. and i
have never and never will own an ozzy album.i have heard most of the stuff, and its
ok. not great, but ok. never had the desire to see the show. same for alice cooper.
i saw gwar on jerry springer once. they said in so many words... we are not to be
taken seriously, we are not musicians.
we are stage performers, a circus.

>         Cripes.

take a pill.

> > MOST of those
> > people who burned beatles albums would gleefully have skipped church or prayer
> > to attend a concert- prior to the statement.
>
>         Oh, really?  Care to prove this?

oh, about as quickly as you can disprove it. i based the statement on my own
willingness to do so,my mother's, and so forth.
i realize that if BOC or HW did a one show only tour in your home-town, on sunday,
or whatever
day you think is holy, you would stand fast and miss the concert because you had to
go to church.
probably more so when you were a starry-eyed teen in awe of the band. sure.
whatever. ;)

> >the statement was attacked so
> >vehementlyby the kind of shit-minded dolts who usually pull the strings, that a
> >mob situation developed.
>
>         You mean like Cincinnati banning a Mapplethorpe exhibit?  Like
>         Kentucky banning Marilyn Manson?  Like the Beatles being banned
>         all over the country?  Like Elvis not being allowed on TV, and
>         then only from the waist down.

why yes, that is precisely what i meant.

>         That's what I mean about perspective.  People here have
>         complained about "how awful" things are today and "how could
>         they get any worse?"  Parents have been saying the same thing
>         since the beginning of time.  It's just that many people here
>         are happy with the "shocking" rock of their youth - on this
>         list, it's BOC and HW.  Well, guys, 15 years ago, people were
>         complaining about BOC just like you're complaining about MM.
>         "No talent."  "Satanic."

yes, people have been saying that for ages.  and they have been right. things are
getting worse. if you dont believe that,i wish i felt the same way.  my point was
that i dont like the music. IMO it offers nothing new. nothing new. nothing new.
that is why (i believe) they feel the need to put on such antics. and as one who
denies the existence of satan, i could care less about it. (im not an atheist. i
simply have no religion. and take responsibility for my own evils)

> > >         Get some perspective, guys, please!
> >what perspective?  the bands talked about here are posers and pretenders.
>
>         And Ozzy isn't?!

sure, add him to the list.

>         As for pretending - *IS THERE ANOTHER PURPOSE FOR ROCK MUSIC?!*
>         That's what it's all about, ultimately.

i disagree. but oh well. i think its all about having good tunes to listen to when
yer driving. i could give a shit about the spirit of rock and roll.

> > marilyn manson isthe big brother playing simple magic
> > tricks to the amazement of the infantile neighborhood kids.
>
>         Quite right.  Not worth being judgemental.

having an opinion is not _quite_ the same as being judgemental.

> >if i want to see the doings of diseased minds, all i have to do is walk
> >outside, or turn on the news. i dont have to listen towannabe musicians for it.
>
>         Perhaps, but I often prefer to have a soundtrack.

rock on.
rj