More Best of 1997

[cannibal at CUTEY.COM]

At 11:48 18.12.97 +0000, Jon Browne wrote:

>Alright, let me rephrase that. The bands that pass for underground these
>days are not original, not experimental, more often than not even
>entertaining and all of them want to be on Top Of The Pops. This is what
>I mean by no underground.

No, it is what you mean by NME/MM type bands...?? There certainly IS an
"underground" and it most certainly is alive and kicking, from Terrastock
to Strange Daze and everything going on outside the "mainstream"...
(mainstream = everything NOT "underground"... "underground" = esoteric,
obscure, original, unconventional, new, whatever...) NME/MM seem to be some
odd hybrid trying to please both worlds by creating some artificial little
clique or scene or something buried with hype and smartypants reviews)!
Buggery! "passing for underground" is not the same as being "underground" -
it's just another layer between the two.

> No one rejects that machine anymore, they all
>want their 15 minutes.

NO ONE? NOT A SINGLE BAND!?? Wait! Which parallell are you hyperspacing in..?
I'm calling in the ketamine police to investigate this... wait, here's a pair
of 3D glasses... hmm... I see... we'll talk about _this_ later!

> Saying that, I am very into British "indie"
>bands, like the NME write about, so no surprises there. When Blur got a
>single in the Top 20 5 or 6 years ago, it was quite a big deal that one
>of "our" bands had made it.

Yeah, I was into that stuff at the time - I have their first 2 CDs (sold
the Popscene EP recently for 25 bucks! Ha!) and I remember it was cool, sure,
it was more innocent like the "grunge" thing happening simultaenously -
it was like, "hey - neat bands are gonna be popular again" and whatnot.
So, OK, alot of them are now, but it's funny how it's all streamlined into
the machine (ESPECIALLY in USA!), and I'm gonna be laughing my ass off
when I pick up the soon to be released Monster Magnet CD (don't ask me why
at the time because I may just say something incoherent!). I thought I'd
heard it all when a couple of years ago they and Melvins were played back to
back on mainstream US radio!! Now? I am hoping both bands use the money they
made off those hits to take even more chances with their music rather than
wanting more money NOW.  (of course similar examples of the british situation
exist).

When all those bands broke big, 90% of them *revealed themselves* as phoneys
and "pop stars" with no balls (Nirvana were an interesting exception of
course...), and it kinda grossed me out. It grossed me out seeing kids "goin'
grunge" overnight - like, from VAPID to 2xVAPID just with more expensive
clothes... I don't know what happened, I just delved back into all the 60s/70s
stuff I "found" on my own in high school (in the late 80s) and expanded from
there until reaching a very different "present day" than what I see in NME or
on MTV :).

"We're coming up again, we're coming up again"
        'Watching The Grass Grow'
                - ICU


>It's nothing now, a big chunk of the charts
>is made up of stuff that wouldn't have got a look in the late 80's/early
>'90's. I'm not drawing any big conclusion, it just occurs to me on the
>plus side, there's actually some pretty good stuff in the charts these
>days (for the first time in my life)

Agreed - it's just, as you point out below...

> and on the downside, all the bands
>want to be pop stars rather than "Dropping Out, Turning On, Tuning In"
>or "Smashing The System in '77". That's the trouble with kids today, no
>one wants to smash the system anymore ;)

... which is why I don't understand attitudes of many people my own
age: content with what's on the plate because its the only one they
see on the table.... (boy, do I hate them well adjusted folks! :))

(...hmmm, where did those 3D glasses go... ah, there they are...)

>Mojo rules. I would buy it every month if it was a hardback that cost
>£15.

Wow! that's a pretty devoted reader they are very lucky to have!!!!

>
>Yes, but no one bought them except NME readers, now they are mainstream.
>This is my point. I said they'd been around for years.

And I thought the NME were sorta mainstream... ok, "alternative" whatever
that means, but not "underground" IMO. Your point is good, but it only makes
100% sense if NME/MM were the ONLY source/outlet for UG culture - which they
certainly are not!!!

>The late Rob Collins did not rob a post office.... rejoined the
band for a year then went through the
>windscreen. Poor Sod, I think.

Bummer!

>Because a) People like them, attend gigs and buy records.

hmm, this trend is lasting longer than we anticipated. Our people
will start generating counter-trends ASAP. Where did I put those 3D
glasses.... ah, there....

>        b) Possibly having to go through that much shit makes you a bit
>more resiliant. They're not thickheads like a lot of their
>contemporaries and they are stayers.

fair enough!


>Beyond that, their equally good second album. More fun throwaway rockin'
>60's pop please, sir! In a recent interview, they said that at least
>three of the tracks on the new album are swipes of Gong's "Oily Way".
>You gotta love 'em!

they are ugly little lovable 60's popsters indeed! :)

>No, Beavis, but they do rock, don't they? Heh heh!  (Ain't seen no
>video)

Yeah they rock.. so what... ho-hum, rock on man... zzzzz...

gimme danger!!!!! gimme death! gimme glory! ... just not "Grunge Again part
II:
The Grunge Sticks Around" (sub-subtitle "The Lalalalala Lyrics Years", a
Harmless Rock'n'Roll Production guaranteed to keep your children from doing
anything subversive! ["we are more mature artists now..."])

>Prodigy are fan-fuckin-tastic live! Again, they've been around wot?, 8
>years, they've been dead good all that time. So Keith (who, yes, is a
>plank) is going through a bit of a dodgy image phase at the moment. So?
>Prodigy is Liam Howlett and the strength of Firestarter is unarguable.

Ok, true. Their early stuff was kinda spacy! They just annoy me now.

>No, there's nothing more to it than that, agreeably nice tunes work for
>me. I like Radiohead for the same reason I like Porcupine Tree.
>Agreeably nice tunes.

AH! Thanks for FINALLY dropping the clue that made me figure out just
WHY I don't like PT very much at all!! But I hear their early stuff is
more interesting...

>J.Mascis is the most influencial guitarist of his generation and you can
>lay grunge entirely at his door. No Dinosaur, No Nirvana, Tad, Mudhoney
>etc    Disappearing up your own ass happens to the best of us. I have
>been up mine now for years. He has a great soul voice and his
>understated guitar is masterly. He is still playing nifty lead breaks in
>an age where no one bothers to actually learn how to play. He's Cool,
>Beavis. "Feel The Pain" is not a boooring song, and people got HURT
>making that video!

ok, I am not doubting Mascis' abilities I just thought Dinosaur jr's time
had come right on time :)

Without HUSKER DU or SONIC YOUTH, no Dinosaur jr.


>Oh there are still several ways.....

Hmm, Grant drop by recently?

>I am just beginning to get philosphical about this. After all, what is
>worse, an old fart or an old fart still dressing like a teenager and
>thinking he's down with the kids. I stopped wearing my baseball cap
>backward last summer ;-) But as for the Live Aid Brigade, c'mon!!!?!

Just kidding - Julian Cope IS dadrock already (but us youngsters can
do the twist just as well as you oldies!) :))


>For about 15 years all I could listen to was Cardiacs, Swans, Foetus,
>Throbbing Gristle, Einsturzende Neubaten etc. I respect what these guys
>do, but I just want to listen to indie-pop-dance-bubblegum-psyche and
>Hawkwind, these days. Especially Hawkwind. I can't hack difficult music
>anymore, I just find it too wearying. Agreeably Nice Songs now please.
>Porcupine Tree, mmm, nice.

In 50 years time, you will be listening to the future of Dadrock.... and
Hawkwind! (what sets one apart, as always, from the others!!!!)

>Julian Cope. Agreeably nice *and* socially confrontational! Peggy
>Suicide is one of the greatest albums ever recorded.

I think it's overrated!


>No, you misunderstand me. It actually *was* Grants' *I* did. He gave it
>to me. ;)

No, I did NOT misundersand you. Grant gave you some, sure, Grant enjoys
lots of things too, I am sure, and reading him in High School prepared
me for the real thing........!!!!! The man blows minds for a living
and obviously had his mind blown more than a few times himself!!!!!

thasswottaimeant... now go peddle his smut!

Christian