OFF: CLONE

[RJ]

ask any nation that has been on the recieving end of an invasion or
whatever, and they will say it
was the USA or russia or whichever STATE, that was killing their peoples.no
one will say that it was
john smith and kerry brown who was doing it.
sure its people doing the killing. but its because of threat of
imprisonment by the state, or the brain washing that is done in school, ala
history class. even tribal leadership fits into the id of "state". if the
grand poohbah
of buttcrack says lets all go kill the other tribe,its the state speaking.
the people follow only because they feel removed from each other, most of
them probably dont want to do it.
but no one wants to be the first to find out whats in store if they refuse.
very few wars have been fought over anything other than furthering the
state's ends, be it financial or whatever. yeah, people are
beasts,sometimes, and are subject to bloodlust.
but someone is always calling the shots,and that person or group of persons
can elect to stay home if they wish, while the soldiers dont often have
that luxury....           rjj
> Martin wrote:
>
> > Do I detect an oversimplification here?  You are quite right - people
do
> > the killing, but is it on their own initiative?  Was the First World
War,
> > for instance, the result of mass psychosis.  On the scale that was
being
> > discussed, it is politicians, and therefore the state, that does the
> > killing and whose hands drip with the blood of the innocent.
>
> Killing is always done by individuals not by states. The state is
> simply an abstraction, a way of sharing collective responsibilities.
> Look at any genocide and you will see that whilst some form of
> authority initiates the killing it is continued and magnified by
> individuals. In both Rwanda and former Yugoslavia tribal killings
> require no state intervention.
>
> IMO the greatest threat that we face to our way of life in the UK
> is the increasing refusal of individuals to take responsibility for
> anything. Give our forefathers their due, they were honourable
> enough to stand up and take the blame occasionally.
>
>
> Chris