HW/OFF: while I'm at it...

[Jon Jarrett]

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, ANDREW GARIBALDI wrote:

> Dunno what prompted Jon to do this - maybe I missed something - but it does
> throw up a few points that I'd like to answer - can't wait to see what he
> says about the Starfield album - wonder if he'll feel the same about an
> album done by a guy who actually plays in Hawkwind!!!

        Hi Andy,
                 sorry if I've touched a nerve. The review was written for
a BBS I frequent, but I thought it was too long and HW-obsessive for
there. I thought it might be of interest on here though...

        The Starfield album is on my list to get so don't go depriving
yourself of money sending me one gratis! It's not like I'm an actual
critic or anything! What appraisals I've seen of the album compared it to
_Electric Tepee_ and I'm sure I'll get on with that. I should just say in
self-defence though that your review of it for the CDS catalogue makes
explicit track-to-track comparisons between parts of _Return to Earth_ and
Hawkwind tracks so it's not as if I'm the first to use this critique!

        Anyway, to pick up your points, if I can manage to do so without
dropping into a flame-war (did I say I liked the album? I did try to. I
play it quite a bit), let's get into the depths...

> REPLY>>>>>>>>>>>>No such thing as 'proper Krel' - the early albums will all
> be released onto CD, so you can hear the old Krel for yourself and no doubt
> compare it to the new Krel, and soon we may have the debut CD from
> CyberKrel - it's all an ongoing process.

        Yes, I'm awaiting the early stuff eagerly. I feel the new album
might strike me as more "Krel" if there were context I could compare it
with. Not that it's Martin's responsibility to bother about how I want to
hear the album obviously, I'm just treating it as an artwork per se.

> REPLY>>>>>>>>>There is no attempt to 'rip-off' Hawkwind on this album,
> musically, but when you're a musician into Hawkwind and space-rock who is
> very heavily influenced by them, what do you expect - Yes samples!!! The
> accusation of imitation may irritate you but I have always said that if
> something is worthwhile musically, even if it sounds like someone else, it
> is still worthwhile musically and you simply can't argue with that. This
> album is a worthwhile and highly enjoyable musical statement and you can't
> say fairer than that.

        Yes, it hits all the right buttons, I just like people that find
new buttons. I mean, DarXtar, Farflung, ST37, many others I'm sure, all
massive Hawkwind fans but they go their own way with the influence. I feel
that _Ad Astra_ is going places that have been gone before. Which isn't to
say it's not a good trip, it's just that... well, I've said it already.

> --------------------------
> Now, Hawkwind are a lgend, and though they do turn out some crap they are
> capable of complete transcendence and no-one else does it the same way. But
> Krel and Spacehead particularly seem to be unable to get further than
> recycling those riffs and putting new lyrics on
>  the old themes (Hawkwind haven't dedicatedly sung about space since the
> early seventies)
> REPLY>>>>>>>>Hang on a minute - Hawkwind can go from crap to transcendence
> and that's OK, but every other band has to be transcedent AND original all
> the time - not fair, that one - and Hawkwind still sing about space live in
> concert, even if not on CD, although I'll bet that's arguable.

        No no, that's not what I meant. I don't *want* Hawkwind to be
crap, obviously, but they do do it occasionally. I'm not asking everyone
else to be transcendent either, I'm just saying I found that the amount of
_Ad Astra_ I could hear Hawkwind references in left me unconvinced that
they had anything of their own to say. Now Krel's lyrics as I say I didn't
mind too much - `Towers' particularly I thought was very interesting
lyrically though I did have problems with it musically as I went on to
say. I stand by the statement that Spacehead's lyrics are awful. I can and
have written stuff as good as theirs myself, verse after verse after verse
of it, whilst working a a quiet bar, and it's unimaginative and derivative
mulch.

> REPLY>>>>>>>>>>yes - blame me for that. It was the first CD we released and
> we made mistakes - I should have put more on the back but we loved that
> photo treatment - incidentally, without using any special lenses, the cover
> is South of France and the inside and booklet back are looking over the
> delights of Newcastle-Under-Lyme, Staffordshire from a higher point in
> Etruria, a mile or two away.

        The photos are very nice. I should have given that some space,
sorry.

> ---------------------------
>  I am often hyper-critical of the stuff that gets claimed as "better than
> Hawkwind" or "reminiscent of Hawkwind at their best so I'll try and make
> clear again before I launch into the diatribe that there are lots of good
> points about this album and I do like it
> REPLY>>>>>>>>>Thanks for the comments - not sure if I ever claimed it was
> 'better than' (check that old promotion!!!) but compared to something like
> 'Distant Horizons', this is sensational stuff - all a matter of opinion I
> suppose, but I go back to my previous statement - this is a class album
> regardless of who or what it sounds like.

        No, you didn't, but Ken Ingham at the Freak Emporium did. Well,
"Almost better than Hawkwind!!" he says. And he is of course trying to
sell it so fine, that way you get the Hawkwind fans buying. I find the
comparison's unfair though - if I was going to build an album out of stuff
taken from a band's whole career I'd probably get a better standard than
most of their individual albums too. If I had the ability of course which
I don't. I actually do like DH a lot, but I agree _Ad Astra_'s better.

> -------------------------
> . The only musical argument I have with it per se is that Martin isnt a
> great singer, and that he mixes his vocals too loud. This is a particular
> problem on the second part of the first track, `Towers', which has a
> deliberately arythmic vocal. So the riff just gets established (and its not
> a brilliant riff, but it does) and you're just hooking onto it when the
> words arrive and throw you off it. Once you know when they're coming in its
> OK but on first listen that is not good.
> REPLY>>>>>>>>Your taste, but what you are saying, in that it is an original
> treatment of the style, while it may irritate you, goes against the
> accusation of lack of originality. He's loud so you can hear the words - not
> exactly Shakespeare, but for us it all fits well together

        No, fine, it's my taste but that's all I can use isn't it :-) I do
as I said in the track breakdown think `Towers' escapes the recycling
accusation but I also don't think it's anything like the best piece on
the disc.

> REPLY>>>>errr......I don't release Spacehead for their mastery of the
> English language - fair point but they freely admit a heavy Hawk influence
> to the degree you say, but we like it and that is our only criteria for
> releasing CD's.

        One thing I do admire about Spacehead is that they also blend in
Black Sabbath into the songs' structures, and I think that should be done
more. They should be heavier! And tuned down! And slower! And use more
effects! And so on...  Though I thought the Astoria performance was poor,
I do quite like _"... Of Stars and Time"_ and if only it didn't sound as
if it had been recorded in a jacuzzi it would be a good hark back to the
Space Ritual kind of ambience with new songs (apart from the one that's
blatantly `Sabbath Bloody Sabbath', but who's counting? Oh, me, sorry). I
mean to get round to getting _In Space We Trust_ so I can see whether that
stuff fared better.

> --------------------
>  This stuff is much better, the same pattern but unexpected words and things
> that sound thoughtful. And though the early rock tracks have a bit too much
> of the singalong bounce about them,
> REPLY>>>>>ahh - commerciality - sometimes you can't do right for doing
> wrong!!!!

        Oh purlease - surely you're not aiming for commercial success with
spacerock! (Joke.) No, I didn't mind that much, it just isn't quite my
thing, once again.

> ---------------
> REPLY: I won't bore you with replies to the specific tracks, just to say
> that it is nit-picking in the minutest detail to say that a part of a riff
> sounds like something out of a Hawkwind song and then sort of damn it with
> faint praise, especially on an album where this has simply not happened on a
> conscious basis, if at all.

        As I say above, I'm not the first person to do this. And if you're
going to maintain a Hawkwind fan can unconsciously use the line "Standing
on the edge of the spirit of the age" without noticing it's a Hawkwind
reference than I shall have to refuse to believe you. And I'm not saying
they "sound like something out of a Hawkwind song", I'm saying they are
the same riffs.

> REPLY>>>>>>>>>>>>>Need? It's not a question of 'need' - if a space-rock
> group does a great album, it's greeted with acclaim and people buy it - if
> Hawkwind do a poor album, people still buy it - if Hawkwind did an album you
> hated, you'd still buy it 'for the collection' - and something new? After 40
> years of the music industry in the 'modern era', there's very little 'new'
> (in the sense that you've never heard anything like it before ) under the
> sun - you could lay the ghost of many a Krautrock band of the seventies
> against many of the USA space-rock bands in a similar manner!!) but there is
> tons and tons of great music out there - always has been, always will be,
> and hopefully we'll weigh in with a few along the way at Dead Earnest.

        I can't disagree with any of that, so I won't, but I don't think
it invalidates my points. It may well be that as you say the points are
insignificant and I'm happy to let them drop, I just don't agree that
they're wrong. I hope I've not been uncivil in standing by them for that
reason. Yours,
               Jon

ObCD: Farflung - _25,000 Feet per Second_ (which also I grant you sounds
like Hawkwind but I don't recognise the riffs)

--
 |  Jon Jarrett (01223 514989)         jjarrett at chiark.greenend.org.uk   |
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