OFF: Help Wanted

[HawkFan]

>First of all, sonata form is rather more than theme, mess about with theme
>and repeat theme.

O level music was rather a lot of years ago now :-)

JR


-----Original Message-----
From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List
[mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of Tom Byrne
Sent: 23 February 2004 23:46
To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET
Subject: Re: OFF: Help Wanted


(Sorry - sent also without header by mistake)

Thanks for the votes, much appreciated :)

I take issue with your musical analysis, however (As you might expect).

First of all, sonata form is rather more than theme, mess about with theme
and repeat theme.

The exposition divides into a 'first group' in the tonic and, after
transitional material, a 'second group' in another key (usually the dominant
in major movements, the relative major in minor ones), often with a coda to
round the section off. Both groups may include a number of different themes.

The development usually develops material from the exposition in a variety
of ways, moving through a number of keys. Compared with the exposition, this
section is usually one of considerable tonal instability and of rhythmic and
melodic tension.

The recapitulation restates the themes of the exposition; however, the
second group is now heard in the tonic (possibly tonic major if the movement
is minor), and there may be temporary excursions to other keys.

Your description as applied to any Hawkwind songs (perhaps "Damnation Alley"
or "Levitation") is more appropriate to what I would understand as 'ternary
form':

The first and third parts are identical, or very nearly identical, while the
second part is sharply contrasting.

As for Hawkwind writing in Sonata form, I find it hard to find the evidence.
Picking some tunes at random: "Spirit of the Age"? Two chords with multiple
overlays and fx. "Assault and Battery"? Conistent repeated chord structure
of type E - G -F# - A with improvisations overlaid. "Assassins of Allah"?
Two separate fused sections. I would agree that "Brainstorm"'s theme is
repeated at the end, but I don't think the rules of sonata form as stated
above are followed. "Wind of Change" is a four chord figure repeated with
improvised violin and synths.

As for my pieces, they're not all instrumental - there are two songs (with
lyrics) on soundclick, "The Buddha in the Internet" and "Three Minutes". The
former is self-consciously influenced by the Brock school of composition,
most notably "On the Case" or "Spirit of the Age". The latter follows a
simple verse / chorus structure, but I use a fugue form for the synth
instrumental.

As for the instrumental  pieces, they do actually follow a form, if not a
strict Sonata form. Phive starts by exposing a theme on a diatonic scale of
C and, develops it over a chromatic scale of C and F and then recapitulates
the theme.

Byrneblanga exposes the theme in F, develops it in D minor and Bb and then
restates it in F. This piece is actually an extract from a single
composition in two parts "The Eye of the Cyclone" which was an exercise I
set myself in developing four intertwining themes over several keys for 50
minutes, while hopefully retaining the listener's interest.

"A Short Life" is classical A-A-B-A ternary form.

"Knowing Another World" is an extended reel combined with a four part canon.

Of course the beauty is in the ear of the listener. It either grabs you or
it doesn't. If we all liked the same thing life would be boring. What
attracted me to Hawkwind originally, rather than form in their music was, to
use the old SF phrase, that 'sense of wonder' they provoked in pieces like
D-Rider, The Golden Void, Demented Man and others. Couple this emotional
force with Calvert's lyrics in the Charisma albums - High Rise, Robot, Micro
Man and bingo!

I also like the Doremi - PXR5 period the best; however some of the live
arrangements the band has turned out recently on Canterbury 2001 and Yule
Ritual are as good as any of the live stuff I can remember (and I first saw
them in 1976). Furthermore I thought they were astonishingly good at
Hawkfest 2003, a powerful and consistent performance. I know others like
Kevin Perry don't share this view - it just goes to show how subjective the
appreciation of music is.

I appreciate the votes and the feedback and shall certainly take your
impressions on board for the future.

Best regards

Tom





>Well you got two votes from me :-)

>Given that I've done my bit can I now do my critic impression, something
>for
>which I'm ideally suited as I've never composed a note :-)

>Your pieces are pleasant, but that's all. They don't seem to have anything
>to say so there's nothing to grab your attention.

>The great thing about pre 1980 Hawkwind is that it really grabs you.
>There's
>always a message to the song (even if it's just that composing whilst
>smoking recreational drugs isn't a great idea :-). OK your pieces are
>instrumental and it's a lot harder to have a message without lyrics, but
>even the Hawkwind instrumentals still have a definite progression to them.
>They go somewhere, they don't just start, run on for a bit then end.

>Part of this is that Hawkwind, like countless bands before and after, use
>the good old sonata form:

>2. development: develop the themes and mix them up a bit
>3. recapitulation: restate the original themes

>OK it's cliched, Beethoven did it, but it gives a track structure and this
>makes the track a lot better to listen to. Great composers bend the rules
>with the sonata form, Beethoven did, and while Hawkwind aren't that great
>they bend the rules too and mostly make their tracks even better as a
>result.

>While I'm on a rant, I think the reason Hawkwind aren't quite the band they
>were (is it too contentious to say that) is that Dave Brock got into
>dance/trance, which doesn't really have a structure, and no-one else took
>up
>the torch. Church of Hawkwind is OK, actually I quite like it as background
>music, but nothing in it grabs you like Doremi Fasiol Latido or In Search
>of
>Space, or indeed Quark or PXR5.

>No-one wants the band to just carry on doing the same thing forever, and
>indeed a good example of a change was when they switched to Charisma and
>Calvert became a dominant force. They certainly changed since, but they
>don't seem to have the sme focus that they used to.

>JR

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection
http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband