Tragedy OFF

[Jon Jon]

The thoughts of the late, great bill hicks, in december 1991:"Been to england? no one has handguns in england.... now, in england last year they had just fourteen deaths from handguns. fourteen. Now! United states, i think you know how we feel about handguns. Whoo! I'm getting a warm, tingly feeling just saying the word to be honest with you. I swear to you, I'm hard. 23,000 deaths from handguns.Now.......Let's go through those numbers again cos they're a little baffling at first glance.England, where no one has hand guns: fourteen deaths. United states - and i think you know how we feel about guns; whoo! I'm getting a stiffy - 23,000 deaths from handguns.But there's no connection...... and you'd have to be a fool and a communist to make one. There's no connection between someone having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone....."Taken from 'love all the people', letters, lyrics and routines Jonathan > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:56:47 +0100> From: fofp at HOLYROOD.ED.AC.UK> Subject: Re: Tragedy> To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET> > Paul Mather writes:> > > But, being someone who knows Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, and the  > > student body, and who doesn't have to "check on the web" to find out  > > about the place, I can state that, statistically speaking, Mike's  > > utopian fantasy of having classrooms with concealed-carry gun toters  > > seeded about the place, like coiled springs ready to counter any  > > rampaging nutters, is just that: a fantasy.  There just aren't enough  > > students with concealed-carry permits---let alone ones who want to  > > bring their guns to class---to make it a viable deterrent, because  > > the possibility of an armed student being in class to shoot back is  > > so low.  Get that: it's a VANISHINGLY SMALL probability. > > Hmmm. If it were me, would I prefer a vanishingly small probability of> having the rampage stopped or a zero one? That ain't rocket science.> > There's the mall example too (and I know I have a couple of examples> somewhere of US schools where (1) a janitor and (2) a student went to> their cars, collected their weapons, and stopped the would-be rampager.> Of course at the mall, there were guaranteed adults there and you're> almost certainly correct in that more of them would be willing to take> on the responsibility of concealed-carry than would students.> > > With or  > > without such a prohibition, a nutter could still expect "Safety At  > > Work."   A possible way to improve the odds is to follow the odious  > > suggestion that came in the wake of the Columbine shootings of  > > mandating that teachers be armed.  (All the teachers I know found the  > > suggestion odious, anyway.)> > I can't see what's odious about the idea of teachers protecting the> lives of students, but as you say, minds differ.> > > It's far from clear to me that "nutters"  > > would be dissuaded from "picking on these places" (as you allege)  > > whether or not there were firearms in class.> > I note that they tend to attack schools and post offices rather than> army bases and police stations. I suspect that if they were honest,> they'd admit that this is because they're rational enough either not to> want to be shot, or at least not before they've done what the intended> to do.> > > After all, there are  > > armed police on the campus at all times; there's even a Corps of  > > Cadets at VT.  And aren't these nutters, after all? > > Nutters can be pretty shrewd at times.> > > Is someone who  > > is prepared to take his or her own life going to be that much more  > > put off by the thought that some passers by might do it for them,  > > instead?> > yes, if they want to go out taking 30 people out with them rather than just> be shot.> > > Bonus points to Mike for divining the intent of the gunman in the  > > spectacular absence of proven facts.  But why not play the blame game  > > when it's free, eh, Mike?> > I haven't said I know what the intent was. All I can divine is what> anyone can: that he wanted to hurt and kill people. Why he wanted that> may well never be known. To be honest I don't care either. My concern is> with the victims and that they should be better protected from these> criminals. > > > I've read a lot of rumour, speculation, and ill-informed "facts"  > > since yesterday about the town and institution I know and love, and  > > I'm sick of it. > > That I can understand. My home town has twice been in the attention of> the meedja in unpleasant circumstances and not much light emerged from it.> > FoFP
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