Christian...

[mary]

Hi Mike,
you have a brilliant way of keeping things in perspective.  My dad was in
the steel workers union, he did arbitration between the other machinists,
and management.  A real high stress job.  Everyone in my history class was
against unions accept me.  The anti-Semitism has to stop.
I agree, this is a very well run forum, and we all have respect for each
other's beliefs.  I'm glad to be a part of this group.

Peace,

Mary

-----Original Message-----
From: BOC/Hawkwind Discussion List
[mailto:BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET]On Behalf Of M Holmes
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:21 AM
To: BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET
Subject: Re: Christian...


Arjan Hulsebos wrote:

> Although I agree with Gary wishing that personal messages were sent
directly
> instead of to the list, I'd rather not see this list become fully
moderated,

Me neither. My point to Mike and the others wasn't a request for
censorship but simply pointing out that while a little of something can
be amusing, a lot of it can be annoying. I'm happy to trust them to know
when they've torn the breeks out of it, even if, like us all at times,
it needs the occasional prod from a friend.

Whatever it is that happens with Christian when he gets out-and-out
offensive, I'm happy enough for Ben to take care of. Ben's judgement has
always looked pretty solid to me.

I've meant to say for a while that I think this list is astonishingly
well-managed and that its denizens are an example to all in their
politeness to each other even while in disagreement.

I recently became an activist in my union and joined their activists
list. That the lefties in the union wouldn't like my political views, I
took as read. Notwithstanding, I'm astonished that people whose
profession is analysing dispassionately arguments they do not hold,
could be so vindictive, illogical, and just plain unable to address the
argument rather than make ad hominem attacks.

I discovered that prior to my arrival, Jews and their supporter had not
only been bullied from the list, but indeed a few had been driven from
the union itself.  I quickly discovered how this works when I called
Hamas, the mascot murderers of the lefties in the union, "Halal
Halfwits".  I was expelled from the list after an anonymous accusation
of "racist" despite the illogic of claiming this when no race on the
Halal diet/ritual can actually be identified and notwithstanding the
fact that I made it extremely clear from context that I meant the insult
only to include Hamas. My argument was essentially that calling them
"terrorists" gives them an elan of fear which they seek, and seeing them
in comedy terms would help undermine their power.

That this could happen at all is surprising.  That it could happen with
anonymous accusation, denial of any defence, summary judgement, no
limitation of sentence, and denial of appeal, is frankly astounding in a
modern trade union.  If an employer tried doing this to a member, the
union would take action.

The contrast with the mature way this list debated issues of music
piracy and potential solutions, a debate I'm aware concerns the very
livelihood of some people participating, was just about as extreme as
it'd be possible to get. You guys should congratulate yourselves on
that. You really are an example (at least to a bunch of academics who
should quite obviously know better) of how things can and should be
done.

Short form : Yay You!

FoFP

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