(OFF) Re: WOTEOT master tapes (was Re: Jamun & Spacerocktrading intro)

[lucidsound]

The album version has a longer guitar solo in the middle.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mike c" <insect.brain at GMAIL.COM>
To: <BOC-L at LISTSERV.ISPNETINC.NET>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: (OFF) Re: WOTEOT master tapes (was Re: Jamun & Spacerocktrading 
intro)


> One more thing, apologies-
> While nothing HW has ever been "bad" to me, I tend to like the
> "message" of "KOS" better than the tune, Moorcock's version excepted,
> and I confess to NEVER really knowing the difference between "single
> version" and "album version". I always thought the song doesn't really
> fit the record muscially.
> so
> I'm interested should anybody set me straight about that......
>
> On 3/10/11, Town Idiot <insect.brain at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Oh are you saying the USA version has things altered so that it can
>> have a SHORTER KOS??
>> If that means I've gained elsewhere I am GREAT with that, but is it
>> that simple??
>>
>> On 3/10/11, Town Idiot <insect.brain at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Oh God, Oh God, only a quater cup of coffee : (
>>>
>>> On 3/10/11, Steve Freight <stevefreight at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Now this quote is interesting
>>>>
>>>> *When they arrived I was delighted to see that they also included the A
>>>> and
>>>> B side of the single as well as Dave�s hand-written notes from 1975
>>>> about
>>>> track order and fades.
>>>
>>> Yes that note looks rather sweet to have with the tapes!!  thanks for
>>> drawing me to your site!!
>>>
>>>> *If so then why was the version of Motorhead the same as the UK CD with
>>>> the
>>>> "scratch" in evidence.
>>>
>>> Treading carefully here, I'm not as keen as I used to be-
>>> I have played the Griffin lately, studying the Motorhead version
>>> compared to the actual Atco single, and while I always think I hear a
>>> "bump noise". NOT a scratch, I would say it is NOT the same as the
>>> Dojo version, and it would seem Rob tells truth here!!
>>>
>>>
>>>> I also understood the DOJO version came out first as this was mastered
>>>> from
>>>> vinyl (I know whose copy of the album was used (and the single)) at
>>>> Doug's
>>>> request as at the time the mater tapes were not available*. *If it had
>>>> been
>>>> released after the Griffin version I would not have bought it.
>>>
>>> I would have thought Douglas could reach up on the shelf and grab a
>>> test-prsssing
>>>
>>>
>>>> This does not though answer why the Griffin version has the single
>>>> version
>>>> of Kings Of Speed instead of the album version. As I've mentioned 
>>>> before
>>>> the
>>>> timings of some of the other songs differ to make up the album time as
>>>> both
>>>> versions are the same length. Think the intro on Dojo version of Magnu
>>>> is
>>>> longer.
>>>
>>>
>>> AH!! My favorite part, and also the where we enter "taboo-land" "for
>>> the sake of discussion"
>>>
>>> YES there are SEVERAL timing differences, and I am still trying to
>>> figure that one out!! ALL other countries seem to be as UK, except
>>> Atco
>>>
>>> THIS brings back what I was saying about the Rock Fever versions-  the
>>> guy on the UK HW forum was saying the version of KOS was NOT the
>>> single version like the Grifffin, BUT THE FULL ORIGINAL
>>> Thus leaving that person to further claim that those versions seems to
>>> have already been made from another set of masters.
>>>
>>> I am only repeating "the gossip", NOT claiming any truth in what I
>>> repeated, nor promoting bootlegs, but there is a digipak, so is there
>>> 3 of those??
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> On 10 March 2011 00:39, mike coleman <insect.brain at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Poor Rob
>>>>> He's just got tapes !! :) (and a yellowing piece of paper)
>>>>> WILFRIED!!!
>>>>> I DEMAND MY SHEET!!!!
>>>>> NOW!!!!!~!~!
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/9/11, mike coleman <insect.brain at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> > and taking THAT ball and running, THAT could explain why my USA
>>>>> > test-pressing is on PRESSWELL records, and sounds SUPERIOR and
>>>>> > different than the Atco pressings.
>>>>> > Maybe I've GOT the master?? (but I wonder why Motorhead was done by 
>>>>> > a
>>>>> > diff company?)
>>>>> > hehehe
>>>>> > Never compared to the Griffin CD.
>>>>> > I can also speculate aloud why the Canadian LP press, in particular,
>>>>> > alos sounds (to me) unique, with a noiticeable flatish drum-sound. I
>>>>> > suppose that is due to the copy process Lucidsound pointed out.
>>>>> > It figures (to me), that right after Lucidsound posted, that entire
>>>>> > thread "vanished" off my computer, this driving me insane and even a
>>>>> > little nervous.
>>>>> > hmmm
>>>>> > Anyway, thanks for info guys
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 3/9/11, Steve Youles <youless at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> >> This doesn't definitely answer Lucidsound's questions, but what Rob
>>>>> >> Griffin
>>>>> >> (owner of Griffin Records) had to say about it is on this page:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> http://www.starfarer.net/griffin1.html
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> It's located about a third of the way down the page.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> BTW I can't prove this, but I'm sure I saw somewhere some
>>>>> >> information
>>>>> >> concerning ATCO's release of WOTEOT which would explain why that
>>>>> >> album
>>>>> >> has never been part of the EMI reissues of 70's Hawkwind albums.
>>>>> >> What
>>>>> >> I
>>>>> >> think I read is that Hawkwind's original UA contract was for 5
>>>>> >> albums,
>>>>> >> and
>>>>> >> it
>>>>> >> thus expired with the release of Hall Of The Mountain Grill.
>>>>> >> However,
>>>>> >> Hawkwind were separately contracted to ATCO in the USA, and that
>>>>> contract
>>>>> >> was still running when they came to do WOTEOT - and in fact was the
>>>>> >> only
>>>>> >> record contract that Hawkwind had at the time.  So, the album was
>>>>> >> actually
>>>>> >> recorded for ATCO, and presumably this means the master tapes were
>>>>> ATCO's
>>>>> >> property - so they may not be a "copy" at all.  And then, once the
>>>>> >> album
>>>>> >> was
>>>>> >> recorded, ATCO licenced it back to EMI for UK (maybe European)
>>>>> >> release
>>>>> on
>>>>> >> a
>>>>> >> short-term licencing deal.  Which has long since expired, and hence
>>>>> >> EMI
>>>>> >> has
>>>>> >> never had the rights to reissue the album.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Good theory, yeah, but I have no evidence to back it up,
>>>>> >> unfortunately.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Cheers
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Steve
>>>>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >> On Wed, 9 Mar 2011 17:20:25 -0000, lucidsound <lucidsound at IC24.NET>
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>The Griffin release is quite likely to be sourced from the ATCO
>>>>> >>> master
>>>>> >>>tapes...however that is not all clear cut.  For example, the ATCO
>>>>> >>> tapes
>>>>> >>> are
>>>>> >>>not THE Warrior master tapes, they are a copy.  A copy of what? 
>>>>> >>>The
>>>>> >>>equalised tape used to master the vinyl? The original stereo 
>>>>> >>>master?
>>>>> >>> A
>>>>> >>> third
>>>>> >>>generation copy?
>>>>> >>>Secondly, it could be that the ATCO tape was digitised using a
>>>>> >>> standard
>>>>> >>>issue DAT, as was quite common for the time and which would impart 
>>>>> >>>a
>>>>> >>>not-inconsiderable reduction in quality. And was the release
>>>>> >>> properly
>>>>> >>>mastered or just copied straight to CD? All of these factors could
>>>>> >>> have
>>>>> a
>>>>> >>>bearing on why the Griffin release does not have the transparency 
>>>>> >>>of
>>>>> >>> sound
>>>>> >>>that might be expected.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View Steve's Photos of Hawkwind Porcupine Tree and Isle of Wight
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/venthawktree
>>>>
>>>
>>
>